I love Lars von Trier.
His movies have always been deliciously provocative, but his brush with the international press is where he really likes to poke some sticks. Part of it is the trappings of celebrity/artist interviews, where intent and context don't matter as much as soundbites. Another part is that Lars von Trier really likes to bait the media. This time, apparently he's gone too far and said something that got him banned from the Cannes Film Festival, the first time a filmmaker has been locked out of the prestigious fest.
Two years ago, the press conference for Antichrist got heated when an angry reporter demanded that the director explain himself for making the controversial movie. This year, a joke about discovering that he is a Nazi and so he sympathizes with Hitler took a bad turn, leading the Cannes organizers to publicly condemn him and declare him persona non grata.
His film, Melancholia, about a group of people facing the end of the world, is still in competition, but even if it wins the Palme d'Or, Trier won't be allowed to accept it, since he is basically barred from entering festival grounds. Just for this year, though. It's still up in the air if he'll be allowed back whenever he makes his next film. My guess? Two years from now, the "Is he anti-semitic or not?" brouhaha would have blown over and people can go back to asking "Is he a pretentious hack or a goddamn genius?"
It has been very weird reading the reactions in the media to this. Not many outlets seem to be giving the context of what Trier is like or that his comments were said in jest. In fact, some even reported the hardcore porn film with Kirsten Dunst he joked about as actually being his next film.
Cracking jokes with deadpan delivery is Trier's habit, and he seems to prefer getting the biggest laughs in the room than to actually answer questions seriously. He did it multiple times during the very same press conference, which begs the question how anyone could possibly misconstrue his Hitler comments as an actual statement of allegiance to Nazis. It seems entirely impossible, unless they're actively looking for a reason to smear him. The statement came towards the end of the conference, after over half an hour of the Danish director giving offbeat, increasingly over-the-top answers.
In the interest of providing context, here are some other choice quotes from the conference by him, delivered mostly dry. It's in chronological order, leading up to the Hitler joke.
Regarding him and Charlotte Gainsbourg knowing each other better after doing Antichrist together:
I know [her] a lot better. From all different angles...
After saying that he thinks Melancholia is a good contender for the Palme d'Or:
I'm not really sure [if I like the film]. Maybe it's crap. Of course I hope not, but there's quite a big possibility that it might be, you know, really not worth seeing.
Adding to Kirsten Dunst's answer to how she played her role so well:
I would say that Kirsten has, thank god, some knowledge of depression. If I can say that. Can I say that? Otherwise, forget it.
To Dunst, on her performance in the film:
I am very happy that you are mentally disturbed. Yes. That helped me.
Why Udo Kier (who is gay) has been in nearly all of his projects:
I've found another way to cast Udo. I've typecast him as a homosexual. That helped very much. Your performance was fantastic, Udo, I don't know where you get it from.
Deflecting a question about the influences for the cinematography in his films:
I would like to talk about my next film. Which is... Kirsten insisted, going to be a porn film. We made this very famous beaver shot in the film where Kirsten demanded to be naked. I said, "But it doesn't really fit the film." She said, "No no no no no. I feel very strongly [about] this." And I said, "Okay, let's put it in." And now she wants more. You know, that's how women are.
Charlotte is behind this. They want a really really really hardcore film this time. And I'm doing my best. I said, "But then, let's make a lot of talking in between, they should have a lot of dialogue." They said, "We don't give a shit about dialogue. We just want, you know, have a lot of very very very unpleasant sex."
And that's what I'm writing right now. It's going to be about three or four hours long. The only reason for that is because this press conference will be a little later, so I can sleep a little longer.
"You do make a lot of disturbing, melancholy movies, but you are very funny in person. Why aren't you making comedies?":
Because whenever I make comedies, they become very melancholic also. [Melancholia] is in fact a comedy. You don't want to see [my] tragedy.
Answering a very pretentious question about art and cinema being the solution to all the fears in this world, after he went on a long schpiel about studying "the conflict between Eastern Churches and Western Churches" and movies bringing the light of Jesus and the Holy Ghost into the audience, etc, which everyone took seriously:
Trier: I'm going to explore it in the porn film with Kirsten. And she agreed on that also, that the whole discussion about the Eastern Church is very important for her... orgasms. In the film, of course. They're all faked. Charlotte's is not fake. But that is two different kind of ways of acting. It's a French versus kind of a more... I shouldn't talk about Spider-Man now.
Dunst: You're the one who cast every member of Spider-Man in your films.
Trier: Yes. I have this thing about Spider-Man...
Dunst: Willem [Dafoe], Bryce [Dallas Howard]. Tobey [Maguire] next?
Trier: He will be in the porn film. I'm sure.
On his collaborations with his director of photography:
He said to me, during the take, suddenly out of nowhere he said, "Don't do the mistake that many middle-aged directors or older directors do that the women get younger and younger and more and more naked." I said, "Don't say that to me." So now, I tell you, they are going to be naked and extremely young. In that way, he helped me, yes, quite a lot. Even in the next film.
On whether making films helped him get through his depression:
I'm past it, somehow. Yes, I stopped drinking. I'm beginning to read books and stuff like that. I'm being boring like everybody else, but I feel good. Even though I'm philosophically against not drinking. I think you should intoxicate yourself. And I'm looking at you, Stellan [Skarsgard]. I could've been looking at Kiefer [Sutherland], if he was here, but he is not here. So next in line is you. And Udo, maybe you a little bit. So next time you will be typecast not only as a homosexual but also extremely drunk. Yes, so we don't have to change anything.
Up to this point, things are fairly jovial, though there are probably some super-serious film journalists who are annoyed by his making a joke out of every question. The controversy started, finally, when he was asked to elaborate on his German heritage and interest in Nazi art:
I thought I was a Jew for a long time and was very happy being a Jew. Then later on came [Jewish Danish director, whose films he helped distribute,] Susanne Bier and then suddenly I wasn't so happy about being a Jew... No, that was a joke, sorry.
But it turned out that I was not a Jew and even if I was a Jew i would be a second-rate Jew because there is a hierarchy in the Jewish population. Anyway, I really wanted to be a Jew and then I found out that I was really a Nazi. Because my family was German, which also gave me some pleasure.
What can I say? I understand Hitler. I think he did some wrong things, absolutely, but I can see him sitting in his bunker in the end --
(For clarity: when Lars von Trier was growing up, his father Ulf Trier was a Jewish man, but his mother revealed to him on her deathbed that he is, in fact, the result of an affair she had with a German co-worker.)
At this point, Dunst leaned over to Trier, giggling, to whisper to him that his joke is bombing and that it's terrible.
There will come a point at the end of this. I'm just saying that I think I understand the man. He's not what I would call a good guy, but I understand much about him and I sympathize with him, yes. But come on, I'm not for the second World War. And I'm not against Jews... Susanne Bier... No, not even Susanne Bier. That was also a joke. I am of course very much for Jews. Not too much, because Israel is a pain in the ass. But still... How can I get out of this sentence?
I just want to say about the art of -- I'm very much for Speer. [Nazi architect] Albert Speer, I like. He was also maybe one of god's best children, but he had some talent that was kind of possible for him to use during, uhh.... Okay. I'm a Nazi.
Finally, asked if Melancholia is his answer to Hollywood blockbusters and would he ever do anything on a grander scale:
Yeah, that's we Nazis [do]. We have a tendency to do things on a greater scale. Maybe you could persuade me into The Final Solution. With journalists.
At this point the awkwardness finally came to a close, and Kirsten Dunst could only say, "Oh, Lars. That was intense." Watch the 40-minute press conference here.
The director has since issued a statement of apology for his comments, clarifying that he was joking the whole time and thought everybody in the room got that it was a bad joke, but it's out there now on the web that he's an anti-semite, and he'll probably have to suffer that image in the public's eye for the near future. In true Lars von Trier fashion, though, his apology still contains some smatterings of snark and defiance. Quoted in the Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet, he offers this final diss:
I think one of the reasons is that the French themselves treated the Jews badly during the second World War. Therefore, it is a sensitive topic for them. I highly respect the Cannes festival, but I also understand that they are very angry with me right now.
If any of you journalists want to beat me, just do it. I will enjoy it.
It was really stupid and it was in the wrong forum. At the press conference with Danish journalists, there were no problems, but I don't think the international journalists understand my Danish humor.
CHAOS REIGNS.
