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Now in the middle of its fourth season, Young American Bodies is a web show following the romantic and sexual relationships between modern twenty-somethings in Chicago whose lives—and limbs—intertwine with one another. Created, written, starring and run by the husband-and-wife team of Joe and Kris Swanberg; it revolves around a theme that the two curiously investigates: sex.

How is it that something so prevalent in mainstream modern culture is still largely treated as an exotic taboo? How does it figure into people’s lives? For Joe Swanberg, it’s something that he brings up again and again in feature films like Hannah Takes the Stairs and Nights and Weekends , in a stubbornly realistic and often explicit way. I spoke with Joe last week to discuss not only the show, but also sexuality in today’s youth, his appreciation for Kieslowski, and what he thinks about the new model of online film distribution.

Sex in the 21st century

Young American Bodies made its debut in 2006 on Nerve.com, a website primarily devoted to sex culture. Since its third season, IFC.com has been their new home, which Joe believes opened the show up to a new audience interested in indie films instead of just those interested in the topic of sex.

Each episode is only about seven minutes long, with each season lasting twelve episodes at most. In those short minutes, we are continually dropped into the middle of these random moments in the characters’ lives—be it momentous or mundane. They chat online. They talk a problem out over coffee. They show each other the “2 Girls 1 Cup” video. They yoga. We’re often treated to them having sex; which are always openly depicted, but not always a big deal.

“We’re still at a place where, culturally and in the media, people aren’t really dealing with sex in a very realistic way,” said Joe. “I think one of the reasons why I continue to explore [sex] is to hopefully decrease the taboo surrounding it and create a few outlets where people can talk about it realistically. It seems to be portrayed in most movies and TV shows as either really silly or really serious. I’m trying to create a middle-ground where it can be everything in between that spectrum.”

“One of the things the internet’s done is certainly introduce a lot more porn into the mainstream and made it readily accessible, which I don’t necessarily think is a good thing. Especially for younger people, I’m worried about that constant access to pornography and how that’s going to shape their idea of sex.”

In addition to directing, Joe also plays Ben on the show, a regular guy trapped in a web of relationships who, as the fourth season opens, is preparing to launch his own porn site. Joe’s wife Kris shares camera duty, but is more prominently known as the actor playing Dia, Ben’s roommate in the first season who's been in a steady relationship since. In Season 4, Dia is recently married and enjoying her honeymoon (read recaps of the show so far).

These two—as well as most of the ensemble—aren’t easily or distinctly defined, which can be terribly dull and frustrating to watch, but that’s part of its identity. The characters are as ordinary and sexually involved as the average young adult (the socially active, big city hipster circle types, anyway). For a show about ordinary relationships, it certainly unfurls, meanders and starts unexpectedly like the real ones do—as if it’s some kind of emotional peep show.

“I definitely know that older people are interested in my films almost as an ethnographic kind of thing… As some sort of weird document of young people’s social behavior,” Joe noted.

Where to put the camera

All the dialogue in Young American Bodies are improvised and shot with lo-fi tech, which is a staple of the new wave now known both affectionately and dismissively as “mumblecore.” The name refers to the staunchly naturalistic and roundabout style of the character interactions, which does sometimes—maybe even a lot of times—involve mumbling.

This particular approach is often criticized as a DIY dud by some due to its ostensible lack of interest in the power of images, too focused in its fresh ideas to know when to rein in the talking. I’m not necessarily excluding myself in saying that.

“Initially, I really was only interested in the acting; and basically photography functioned mostly as a way to capture that acting and the camera was totally subservient to the actors’ movements. That’s definitely changing with my films and I think that it’s changing with Young American Bodies also.”

The hardest thing about enhancing his own visual palette, Joe pointed out, is finding the balance between composing a visual design and giving his actors the same level of freedom they’ve always worked under. It’s hard to frame a shot when you don’t know what the actors are going to do next or where they’re going to do it.

“[Now] I’m getting more deliberate with the camera movement. I’m working with the actors more in a sort of choreographed kind of way. It’s having the camera be of equal importance with the actors and still trying to retain naturalistic performances, but with a more heightened visual sense.”

Polish director Krzysztof Kieslowski, best known for his Three Colors Trilogy, serves as a big inspiration. Joe admires the way Kieslowski played with light and colors in his films, which is an interesting contrast against the usual mumblecore aesthetic. Even so, Joe shares at least two things in common with the late master: striving for social realism and a background in documentary filmmaking.

A collaborative effort

While studying as a film major at SIU, Joe made a lot documentaries. At one point, he even believed that he would become a documentary filmmaker after graduating. Later on, his first movie Kissing on the Mouth features actual audio interviews with real couples, sharing stories about their relationships.

Even in his narrative work, Joe is still greatly influenced by documentaries, reapplying the technique he’d picked up from making them. A typical Joe Swanberg production is a small crew getting together to gather tons of improvised footage with the actors. He then takes all the footage and tries to find a coherent story in the editing room.

I asked him if it’s fair to say that the show is partly a documentary, given how much of it seems to develop out of personal experience. He said yes.

“We definitely allow the show to be influenced by [what’s happening] in the actors’ lives. We don’t plan more than one season at a time, so we don’t have any planned schemes of how we think the whole series will turn out.”

He maintained, however, that the characters on Young American Bodies are still fictional. When one of the actors contributes a story, it is usually given to someone else in order to keep things from becoming too personal. What’s more important is letting everyone contribute as much as they can into the show, to see different voices being heard in a collaborative manner.

“It usually starts with just Kris and I, and then we start talking to the actors once we’ve got a basic storyline. They’re always really heavily involved.”

We pointed out a few weeks ago that Joe Swanberg is credited on another IFC web project, the vampire horror-romance Dead and Lonely from horror’s latest name-on-the-rise, Ti West (The Roost, House of the Devil). According to Joe, he helped out on the production working as the sound guy. A noticed and rising auteur working below the line? It’s just the kind of spirit of collaboration that seems to permeate mumblecore—many of this genre’s output often look like a game of musical chairs with the same cadre of film people.

Right now, Swanberg and West are collaborating again for Silver Bullet, a feature film that the former will direct and the latter act in, which they hope to start shooting by the end of the year. Silver Bullet is Swanberg’s attempt at a pseudo-horror film. Described as a loose adaptation of Anton Chekov’s The Seagull, Silver Bullet centers on an actress cast in a werewolf movie and is “a film about filmmaking”—much like The Seagull was a play about putting on a play.

A new online market

While you’ll find plenty of them starting up all the time, it’s actually pretty uncommon to see a web show last over 3 years without ever jumping to another medium. Many of them die, get adapted for television, re-edited as a movie, or at the very least come out on DVD; but Young American Bodies remains only as a free web series, and there’s no plan to release it any other way.

“I really like the fact that basically anybody, anyone in the world can check it out whenever they want. A DVD would limit that,” Joe said, adding that the only reason to release it that way would be if their funding falls apart and they need more money to continue the show.

For his feature films, Joe is equally pragmatic. I mentioned the story of Ink’s unexpected popularity and asked him what he thinks of the internet’s potential to change the way independent filmmakers break through the barrier. While he sounded cautious about the feasibility of the current alternatives to make income (donations, merchandising, etc), he seems to hold a healthy view on the arrival of new technology.

“I’m not very protective of the movies in that way. I think any way that people see them is a good way,” he said bluntly. “I would love to make all of my movies available for free, if there’s some other way to make money off of them, you know? I think BitTorrent is a really cool technology, and I’m realistic about the fact that it exists. There’s only so much you can do to fight against it.”

In response to new online business models being proposed, which are currently still in their relative infancy, Joe said he’s “keeping ears on the ground.” In the end, he does want his movies to make a return, as any artist needs to one way or another.

“It’s just a sustainability thing for me. I never have cared about or planned on making a lot of money. I just want to be able to keep working.”